Lyrics and Time Sig…

 

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Lyrics and Time Signatures

(@import)
Membre

Good morning Alan (and everyone),

I am a Celtic musician; and while I’ve always been interested in Breton music, certain aspects of the Breton tradition are both unique and intimidating, and make it difficult for a non-Breton (even a fellow Celt) to grasp.

For example: the complex time-signatures used in traditional Breton music. Many of them seem unique to Brittany, as I’ve never seen them used by musicians outside that region. How did they come about?

And how would you recommend a non-Breton harper deal with these rhythms? If they are divisible into a smaller signature they can be simplified, but I’m not sure that’s the ideal solution (the math does not always permit that, anyway.)

Also: intermittently, I have been looking for an English translation of the lyrics to Son ar Chistr. I know it’s a drinking song, and the drink of choice is cider, but that’s all. Would it be possible for you to favor us with a brief translation of the words?

Slán,

Fionnghuala

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Posté : 12/10/2007 3:34 pm


 alan

(@alan)
Membre Moderator Registered

I will give you a translation of Son ar chistr, or somebody else will do it here.
For times signatures: I write Plinn, gavotennoù, Fisel , andro in 4/4, 2/2 pe 12/8, not in an unusual time signature.
slàn !
alan

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Posté : 15/10/2007 4:42 pm

(@import)
Membre

Alan,

Many thanks, that will really come in handy!  Over the last several years I’ve looked for an English translation but could never find one.

Also, just to clarify my apprehension about those rhythms: 

One example of what I’m talking about, is the carol Peh Trouz ‘Zou ar en Doar.  In the sheet-music I acquired for this song, the time-signature changes each measure, alternating from 9/8 to 15/8 to 12/8 (!)  The thought of trying to play those changes was nearly enough to give me a heart attack. 

But, Smile maybe such rhythms aren’t actually as common in Breton music as I was led to believe?

Slán,

~F

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Posté : 08/11/2007 5:53 pm


 alan

(@alan)
Membre Moderator Registered

it’s strange; I have not gone back to the sheet written by my father (I’ll do when I have time)… in the 50s, but I would write 6/8 all the time in this carol, which seems much more appropriate:
phrase A: 16 bars 6/8,
phrase B: 16 bars 6/8
(!)
we could go further in the inner interpretation;
slàn!
alan

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Posté : 29/11/2007 5:45 pm

(@import)
Membre

Just a quick update:

It’s been a while since this subject came up. But the website below seems to contain a bilingual version of the lyrics to Son Ar Chistr:

http://www.allthelyrics.com/lyrics/moyland/son_ar_sistr-lyrics-1266126.html

(Trilingual, to be accurate; there’s a German version too.)

It seems a little short on verses. But otherwise, is this a fairly accurate rendering?

~Slán

Fionnghuala

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Posté : 01/10/2008 8:51 pm

(@import)
Membre

I’ve recently made an arrangement of that carol and it’s in 6/8 measure, exactly as Alan says.
The only thing that may seem « irregular » with Breton dances is only the accentuated rhythm. For exemple, a gavotte has a stong 1st, 4th and 7th. That’s all the magic Wink
If you want to see real irregular rhythms in Breton songs, check some old gwerzioù…

Go n-éirí leat!

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Posté : 01/10/2008 9:53 pm


 alan

(@alan)
Membre Moderator Registered

Son ar sistr or Son ar chistr (my spelling) is OK; only a few mistakes.

it’s not « to be drunk », but « (cider) to be drinken »;

I sing another verse :

« N’oan ket c’hoazh tri miz eureujet, loñla
‘benn ‘vezen bemdez chikanet, loñla »

(I was not married for more than three month,
Till I was everyday blamed);

and « merc’hed » in place of « marc’hed ».

and even if it sounds nice, « my friend » is not a translation for « loñla » (which doesnt mean anything)

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Posté : 03/10/2008 7:47 pm

(@import)
Membre

« alan »« alan »

my friend is not a translation for Lonla (which doesnt mean anything)

There’s a few similar nonsense words in Irish; they occur frequently in traditional songs, but are pretty much just euphonic noise.

Whoever translated the English probably put it there so the line would scan properly. Wink

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Posté : 07/10/2008 2:17 pm

 

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